Competitiveness in the EDH format

{"ops":[{"insert":"There is a difficult line to walk when striking a balance between casual and competitive. I think knowing your deck well and having an idea of what the playgroup will play is key. I like to keep 4-5 decks in my box at any given time so I can have a range of power to choose from. One of them is the highest power I could shoot for within my collection, one will be jank conceptual prototype for some crazy idea that seemed cool. The rest fall in between at varying levels.\nI don't think it's an issue of you or your mindset needing to change, nor the players you play with. Maybe you could substitute some cards for others with a higher cost or similar, tuned down effects.\nAnother consideration is the price point and quality of individual cards in your deck relative to others of the same type. There can be a huge difference in the speed and competitiveness of decks who have a Sol Ring and some signets as apposed to a deck with Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Chrome Mox, etc.\nThings like infinite combos can also be a decisive factor in going between casual and competitive decks. Some play groups won't even allow infinite combos at all. Although combo-ing out can feel great, if you're the only one at the table with such a combo in your deck and you use it to pimp slap the table, it's easy to tell why people aren't having a good time... \nYou could always try to find more people to play with who will sit at a higher \"power level\", but if you have a good group of friends that you enjoy playing with, consider making a deck just to play with them. Could be more focused on interactions and board state rather than rushing for a win con.\n\nI don't think you will ever have ideally matched power levels unless you're playing from a curated cube or made opposing decks yourself or something. But that's one reason cEDH is cool too, because there is a form of consistency in using only all of the best cards for most of the deck. \n\nI'm done rambling, good luck.\n"}]}

{"ops":[{"insert":"This has been an on-again off-again problem for me in my history of playing EDH (~11 years), so I know what you mean. I've found that the best way to combat this, is to intentionally choose commanders that aren't really capable of doing overly degenerate things. Of course, if you totally disregard your commander, any deck can easily become degenerate. So you also need to have some desire to build AROUND the chosen commander. I think Dana Roach is a perfect example of this philosophy in action. While he has some incredibly powerful decks, he intentionally chooses commanders that are janky and won't ever get overly degenerate. I've built with some unpopular (though not incredibly uncommon) commanders like Rakdos, the Showstopper and Rhonas, the Indomitable, and I've had a blast with them. They do powerful things, can keep up with highly tuned decks, but they never leave the folks at the table feeling like \"Wow, that was some bullshit\". Magic is definitely more fun when the folks at the table are all having fun. If this doesn't seem like something you're interested in doing, I would just consider getting into Cedh. Though I have little to no experience in Cedh, I think that it's pretty clear that it's an environment where EVERYONE is doing degenerate things, so the fact that you got to your combo before someone else is not something anyone has a right to feel bad about. Hope this helps!\n"}]}

{"ops":[{"insert":"Short answer, your good don't worry, you might need to find others who play like you do, when you and others push eachother to be better its lots of fun and its a great way to keep it fresh but its not as fun when people in the group don't want to change their janky deck or progress in any way, it gets stale beating the crap out of the same deck over n over, one method I use to make strong deck but keep it semi casual is ill run very few tutors, the more you add the more competitive and repeatable the deck is, me and a friend once pushed our decks to cedh levels and realized we were both just racing to the wincon, we each knew the others wincon so well when one would draw it we'd just go \" hey I drew this can you counter or do I win?\" And that got boring so I keep it at an 8 or 9 so in this way I have to win different ways everytime keeping it exciting for me and others.\n"}]}

{"ops":[{"insert":"It's no just the cards you use, it is also your mind set. My Windgrace deck has a "},{"insert":{"card-link":"Wasteland"}},{"insert":", and in theory I could use it to wreak havoc with an opponents manabase by recurring it several times per turn, but I have never done that. It is strictly there to deal with lands that pose a threat, such as an opposing cabal coffers. \n"}]}

{"ops":[{"insert":"It's been my experience that \"you can take the competitive out of the deck, but you can't take it out of the player\"\n\nFor context, I've played various formats competitively for the better part of 15 years now. I've dabbled in edh/Commander over that time, but only properly committed to it as a format in the last two years or so.\n\nThe thing that I noticed the most was how the shift to competitive play shifted the way I was processing information & changed my decision making process.\nI had a kitchen table group before I started playing competitive mtg, & it wasn't so much that I could bring out my competitive standard deck & destroy them... it very quickly became that I could borrow one of their decks & do that.\n\nTo put it another way, competitive mtg opened up this very competitive, very spikey part of my brain, & even to this day I have to work to suppress it when I want to play some more casual magic. (& I might add that I'm not always successful).\n\nPersonally the people I play Commander with on a regular basis are mostly from my local store, & most of them play competitive formats as well, so we're mostly in a fairly similar place & nobody really minds playing hardball (also we have fairly good communication so we can collectively pick slightly less tuned decks if we want a more relaxed game).\n\nIn terms of how this applies to you....\nIt is definitely possible to down-tune your decks.... set artificial limitations etc, & it will help. But the drive to play for the win will always be there (it's not neccessarily a bad thing, but it does appear undesirable within the context of your current playgroup).\nWhat I would suggest is to try to change the design philosophy behind the deck(s) from \"I want to win with X\" to \"I want to do *insert interesting or cool interaction here*\". The goal then not being to win, but to do something specific. Shifting the design focus of the deck away from winning & onto doing something cool/interesting was the most effective way I found to take my mind off \"playing to win mode\"\nI wouldn't advise it for everyone, but for your playgroup as you describe it, you probably need a push to take your mind off the path of playing to win.\n"}]}

{"ops":[{"insert":"I will admit that I did not read all the answers to the post but want to bring my two cents on the topic. There is obviously a lot of different type of players who play the game. While someone can have fun building and playing a deck that do work like an engine that generates lot of ressources and triggers and where you do things during at least 15 min because you snowball, there is also a lot of players that find it unfun to play against. Some archetype are considered in general not fun. But, eveyone around the table in my opinion should have fun. If you often win because your decks are stronger than your opponents and you always end up being the Archenemy where everyone try to slow you down... victory may be fun, but was the game fun? Did your friends at the table had fun? Like I said, everyone are diferent and like different things. Hard to find a table where everyone is a Johnny and play similar high powerlevel decks. Maybe in this situation everyone at the table would be on the same wavelenght and have fun losing against infinite combos before turn 5. I would not say you are the problem. You have your playstyle. What I think however is that everyone of us disregarding of their playstyle should have in mind them and their opponent having fun in a casual game. This may mean, finding a group that will have fun with your playstyle. That may mean you try different avenue. Like giving yourself some deckbuilding restrictions in order to powered down a bit you decks. Can be that you build various powerlevel decks with various strategies so you can always adapt to what the others around play to try to achieve a balance. Winning is fun like you said. But, there is not just that in a commander game. Personnaly, I can loose and be happy with the game if I had fun. Fun can mean you were about to win but your opponent found a way to get back and finally won. It can be that in a game you crewd a Smugler's Copter with Emrakul. It can be that you had a blast blocking your opponents 20/20 creature with 1/1 tokens over 6 turns. What i'm trying to say is that the fun is not just in the act of winning, so if you focus less on that you still can have fun because your opponents will have fun. You will still be able to pull wacky combos or other unexpected synergies and fill your Johny in you from time to time even with an intentionnaly less optimised deck. I had a playgroup were all except one played casually. One of us cannot be satified if his all his decks were not optimized. That ended up that every time by turn 3 he already had things on the table that poses him as a treat. All games were turning into Archenemy with us trying to slow him down. He often was winning and he was always happy about that. But, he was the only one having fun. The other three of us were tired of these Archenemy games. We were not dong our things with our decks, we were always attacking him and spending our removal on his things. I left that group. During a period I boosted the level of my decks in an attempt to be at his level. I built decks with combos and all with the goal to win faster than him. I won sometimes. But, this was not my playstyle. It didn't made the games more enjoyable for me and the other opponents.\n"}]}

{"ops":[{"insert":"I don't really play cEDH, but my best decks seem to trend in that direction. Even so, I try to make my opponents hate my decks for other reasons. (Random instances of infect, Elf/Goblin go-wide, Slivers, etc...)\n"}]}

{"ops":[{"insert":"I "},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"generally"},{"insert":" try to play with cheaper cards. Maybe 1-2 $20+ in a deck. Then make it as competitive as I can. When most of your cards are sub-$1 it's hard for people to really complain.\nOn the other hand I've played with a fairly solid mono white, but when the other guy is pulling out $20+ cards on a regular basis, there was not much I could do but watch. I almost pulled my deck apart after that, but have since played against other decks and found it competitive enough and fun enough to keep.\n\nI think I may just keep one deck I really like and dump money into as time goes by to see what I can do with it, but it will limit who I can play it with. Usually I only have about 5 decks at any given time before getting bored and cycling one out for something new.\n"}]}

{"ops":[{"insert":"I've always felt cEDH is antithetical to the goal of EDH as a format, but its not unbeatable.\ncEDH often becomes deepest pockets win, but that's never a given. Let me tell you a story....\n\nFirst time I walk into my local card shop for a a pick-up game of commander, I quickly find a group of three looking for a fourth and sit down with my newly made Yuriko Tiger's Shadow Ninja deck. Across from me is a younger dude running a Jund Dragon Tribal, beside me to my right is Geist of Saint Traft, and across from him is the most expensive deck I have ever seen in my life. All foils, all alt arts, Phelddagriff General.\nThe first round: Basic Land. Sol Ring. Pass. For everyone but me at the table, I open with an Island and Slither-Blade. This is when I notice that everyone at the table is using all foil decks besides myself and have full art lands.\n\nSo I decide to show up the deep pocket players. >:)\n\nI play intentionally bad for the next three rounds, missing triggers and timing on the stack, even misplaying mystic tutor on turn 3. By the time turn four came around these guys where entirely focused on each other and I've got Slither-Blade and Ingenious Infiltrator in play with little else to speak of besides ramp.\nTurn 4: I set up my board with a couple more cheap unblockables, (Lurker and Outcast I think) and cast Bident of Thaasa. \nTurn 5: Play Brainstorm to stack top-deck, Swing with unblockables, drop Yuriko, Shakshimi's Student which copies Ingenious Infiltrator. Draw 14 cards in total and deal 21 damage via Yuirko's effect to all three. Main Phase two; Delve into Temporal Trespass for 3 Blue. Take Another Turn, repeat process for 33 damage. Scoop cards thank them for a good game. \nWalk away like a Boss.\n\nMoral of the story?\ncEDH is still EDH in the sense that you never know what insane play might be coming. \nI still think cEDH is missing the point and I never played with that group again because I knew it I wouldn't be able to con them like that a second time and I wasn't about to pay a grand out of pocket to compete with them either.\nBut EDH is naturally chaotic. \n"}]}